| Author |
Message |
skipnet50
It all began with a mouse
| Registered: October 4, 2000 | | Posts: 33,731 |
| | Posted: | | | | Achim:
Hopefully we will get a better answer in the next version, we just have to wait and see and roll with it. Boxset as an Actual package needs to go away, largely because it causes confusion with the Boxset data, as has been discussed several times. All we can do is work with what we have now, and worry about what happens next when next becomes now.
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| Darxon
Al Capone with a badge
| Registered: May 24, 2001 | | Posts: 1,784 |
| | Posted: | | | | First off, with "sleeve" I was actually referring to "Slip Case". IMO those are the same, and I don't prefer one way over the other.
Envelopes are something different, at least in my book, but I can see the similarities, so "Slip Case" is absolutely fine with me.
So, drop "sleeve" and substitute with "Slip Case". 
The Alien Quadrilogy is a Digibook (belongs under "Digipack", see page one of this thread), inside a Slip Case (see? I'm constantly learning...  ). While this is currently listed as a "Digipack" in the parent profile, I can see the inconsistency when comparing this set to, for example, the John Wayne collection on this thread's first page. Both have the outer sleeve / slip case and another form of packaging for the movies included.
So yes, I'd agree, that both parent profiles should carry the same case type, in this case "Box Set", since "Slip Case" is not available though very common.
Which brings us to the second - and IMO more important - point:
All the difficulties with the Case Type "Box Set" stem from the awkward way IVS currently mixes the Case Type and the Profile Type "Box Set" in the rules. It is really hard to tell the two apart, especially since the same term is used for different things without explicitly telling the users so.
There's a lot of people out there that insist on calling everything that contains more than one movie "Box Set" and display this information in the case type field. This is only natural, because the rules tell you "everything with more than one movie is a box set", and the only place you can find that entry is... the case type field.
But: that also means, that box sets without a slip case shell (for example, steelbooks containing more than one movie, digipacks without a slip case shell (very rare, I know, but they are out there), envelopes with several movies inside and so on) are labeled "Box Set" by a lot of people.
Which is currently wrong, because the case type "Box Set" is only for those sets that hold several movies in individual packaging and mantle them with a Slip Case. In these cases, the parent profile has the case type "Box Set", and the children have the case type "Keep Case" (or "Digipack" or whatever else).
All the other ways of packaging do not qualify for the case type "Box Set".
The use of the same name for different things is an unnecessary complication, and by dropping "Box Set" from the case type selection and substituting it with "Slip Case", we'd still have a case type for those sets that mantle individually packaged discs in an outer case, but without further confusing people by utilizing the same word for different things.
So we wouldn't be back where we started, but actually would take an important step forward to clarifying the contribution rules.
And the "Box Set" information, that is common to ALL collections of more than one movie (regardless of the packaging) should be put somewhere else in the profile description, as it has nothing to do with packaging, but only with content.
That's what I suggested, nothing more, nothing less.  | | |  |
| ya_shin
First think, then talk.
| Registered: May 29, 2000 | | Posts: 6,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks, Darxon, for taking the time to evaluate the question thoroughly. It seems you agree that the parent profile for the Alien Quad should have a case type "Box Set", as it is a Slip Case.
When the Rules Revision was prepared (or already when writing the original Rules...) it already became clear, that the mixing of the the terms is highly unfortunate for the reasons you describe so well.
Everything that is not a Slip Case as per page 1 of this thread should indeed be Custom case type, if containing several movies; I agree.
Don't worry folks, I won't contribute accordingly, just wanted to get this off my chest. Let's just keep the status quo and hopefully the future (with the revised box set handling, thanks to TV sets) will bring improvement. | | |  |
| Dan W
DVD_Mad_Man
| Registered: May 9, 2002 | | Posts: 4,669 |
| | Posted: | | | | What you guys are forgetting is that there was much discussion and heated disagreement on the terms used to describe "Sleeve," Slip Case," and Slip Cover."
In an effort to settle this problem I took it on myself, with the endorsement of IVS, to make images of each and posted them in this thread. The arguments stopped when I did, and until now, the arguments had disappeared for the most part.
I wasn't intending to be flippant with my answers. I felt I was giving a proper answer by directing people to the post with images. These images should remove the need for lengthy and wordy descriptions of the cases in question.
BTW, I also told him which case type to enter for all of these except for Quadrilogy.
As you folks can see by my replies in this thread, I think brevity is the better way to answer these questions. But when you insist I can be as wordy as the best of you.
To super-condense the earlier debates which took place over a year ago, "Sleeve" does not properly distinguish between the two types of "Sleeve" cases; namely, Slip Cover and Slip Case. Do other people use different terms for these in other forums? Yes! Does it matter? No! Why doesn't it matter? Because those same other forums use varying names for the other cases too. For Example: Keep Case, only one of which (but very common) is amray. Amray is but one manufacturer of keep cases and we (the forum as a whole) felt that identifying each manufacturer of each case was going too far as some of them are unidentifiable anyway. Besides, who really cares that there are more than 20 different companies that make "Keep Cases"? In the end, almost nobody here wanted to track that information.
I agree that the case names we use should be descriptive, brief and precise. The case names used in the first post meet those requirements. The images clearly illustrate each case type available to us in DVD Profiler and some that aren't.
Any time there is a question on a case type, use the images. These images match what IVS has chosen to use. If someone disagrees with you on a case type, direct them to the first post in this thread.
I refuse to get into each of your arguments over case types. My earlier post was just that, me staying out of your argument over a case type. Anyone who cares to do so, can look at the images and will immediately know which case type to use for Alien Quadrilogy. I do not need to enter the foray to make it any clearer than it already is. IVS and I have already stated our points of view on this. You can see that point of view in the images.
When a question comes up on case type, please post it here but do not expect me to change my mind from what is already illustrated in the first post.
Enjoy the images and have fun in your arguments.
P.S. I agree with most of what Darxon said. | | | Dan W
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| ya_shin
First think, then talk.
| Registered: May 29, 2000 | | Posts: 6,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks Dan.
I did understand your answers correctly. Brief and to the point. If I came across otherwise, then I apologize.
I do remember our heated discussions very well (just didn't want to elaborate too much).
Your first post in this thread is quite excellent and I use it as a reference quite often.
Given your comments (I hope I properly read what you were saying) I almost feel like contributing the correction to the Alien Quadrilogy (I still won't, just in case I misunderstood  ) | | | |
| Dan W
DVD_Mad_Man
| Registered: May 9, 2002 | | Posts: 4,669 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin:
Quote:
Thanks Dan.
I did understand your answers correctly. Brief and to the point. If I came across otherwise, then I apologize.
I do remember our heated discussions very well (just didn't want to elaborate too much).
Your first post in this thread is quite excellent and I use it as a reference quite often.
Given your comments (I hope I properly read what you were saying) I almost feel like contributing the correction to the Alien Quadrilogy (I still won't, just in case I misunderstood ) Thanks for that.
Last word on Quadrilogy: The images do make it clear don't they? | | | Dan W
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| ya_shin
First think, then talk.
| Registered: May 29, 2000 | | Posts: 6,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Last word on Quadrilogy: The images do make it clear don't they?
So I did understand you correctly.... 
Yes, they are very clear. | | | |
| Unicus69
Alien with an attitude
| Registered: May 8, 2001 | | Posts: 3,050 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin:
Quote:
Thanks Dan.
I did understand your answers correctly. Brief and to the point. If I came across otherwise, then I apologize.
I do remember our heated discussions very well (just didn't want to elaborate too much).
Your first post in this thread is quite excellent and I use it as a reference quite often.
Given your comments (I hope I properly read what you were saying) I almost feel like contributing the correction to the Alien Quadrilogy (I still won't, just in case I misunderstood )
My understanding is that it is a case type 'Box Set'. Yes, the individual discs are in a digipack, but the entire collection is contained in, what IVS calls, a 'Box Set'.
JMHO | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by Unicus69 |
| ya_shin
First think, then talk.
| Registered: May 29, 2000 | | Posts: 6,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
My understanding is that it is a case type 'Box Set'. Yes, the individual discs are in a digipack, but the entire collection is contained in, what IVS calls, a 'Box Set'.
JMHO
So you agree as well.... 
Hmmm, I'll give it a shot then to correct the online profile. | | | | | | | Last edited: by ya_shin |
| Darxon
Al Capone with a badge
| Registered: May 24, 2001 | | Posts: 1,784 |
| | Posted: | | | | Good luck 
BTW: that's exactly my take on this as well, as I said earlier.
Have fun | | | |
| pompel9
| Registered: April 29, 2005 | | Posts: 345 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks. That was what i wanted. Just to get a straight answer on this. I was not trying to get a upheated discussion. Just what to put in as case type. And Dan W, no it was hard to figure out what i should use. On the most cases yes. But this case type is not common.
And a big thanks to you for providing this pictures. |
| Dan W
DVD_Mad_Man
| Registered: May 9, 2002 | | Posts: 4,669 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
Thanks. That was what i wanted. Just to get a straight answer on this. I was not trying to get a upheated discussion. Just what to put in as case type. And Dan W, no it was hard to figure out what i should use. On the most cases yes. But this case type is not common.
And a big thanks to you for providing this pictures.
Glad it helped. | | | Dan W
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